tv Bloomberg Business Week Bloomberg May 13, 2017 7:00am-8:01am EDT
>> welcome to bloomberg businessweek. i am oliver read it. we will talk about cyprus. thhoed for laundering. and by 2017 is shaping up to be the biggest year yet for the u.s. heroin industry. and finally, what a murder in kansas tells us about race, immigration and the future of america. all of that is right ahead on bloomberg. >> we are here with megan murphy
and i want to start by talking about the cover story. this is a sad but important story in which you guys loop in a lot of stuff. tells about what happened in kansas and why this is such an important event to put in perspective right now? >> we are proud of the story and the journalism at the heart of it and reporting. we have gone back to a community in olathe, kansas where two indian born engineers who worked garmincompany called carm we shot, one of them was killed. one was shot in the leg in february this year by men who yelled, get out of my country. >> what happened that night in the bar? >> they were just drinking at the ba le they do. we sent photographers to this bar, it is not unusual to see a mixed-race group of people having beers. sharing stories with colleagues.
the only thing that is a little bit interesting about this is just how mixed this community was. the people don't know the investment these companies are making. this is a town that has a hindu temple. there were cricket leaks. there are areas where there are indian born families having celebrations of the community. it was disrupted by a man who came in and shot and killed and opened fire in this bar. we tell the story of people who work and have been in this count who came here from california and the east coast, who said we came here for the great schools and peaceful life. >> the american dream. >> this is a story of america's america. not trumps america. and it is how this has happened among rising rhetoric, limiting the says. which is particularly how
indians have got access into this country and how it makes people feel so deeply unsettled d fearful for their family's future and for the first time looking over your shoulder as they walked down the street in kansas, and how disruptive that can be. we really need these kind of models and skills training for our workers. this is the workforce we are looking for that will be the next generation workforce. not the workforce in 10 years but the workforce of tomorrow. working for these companies in this kind of town. they're worried about whether or not they will be able to stay in this country and if this violence is isolated or will be more prevalent -- the very fabric of the community starts to peel away. oliver: at the local level, what is the government and local communities doing to try -- there is also a big cost economically at stake because people have but this area? >> completely. we spoke to the head of police about responsibility in there was almost a disbelief among so many officials.
this is not a town -- have you ever heard of olathe, kansas? i can be honest and say that i hadn't. this is a microcosm of america that works in a way of providing opportunity and building an economic infrastructure. in a part of the world a lot of people would not know this is happening. it is happening in parts of india, is happening in japan and south korea. there are communities like this all over the world we don't know about. this is a community that now is under threat, and i think officials feel very responsible looking at their demographic breakdown, looking at what they have built, and realizing the fragility of that. they need to make this community feel safe. you mentioned crimes against muslims, these are hindus and sheiks confused with isis recruits. it is unacceptable in a democracy and i think by bringing the stories to people's
attention, they will understand these struggles the people face and also their successes. oliver: that is what you have done here. thank you so much. bartus on theon challenges of putting such a sad story on the cover of business week. >> we have this headline, and it does sort of get to the fact that this is something, this is a crime that happens in a state in the u.s. but has larger implications. we got the most appropriate way to show that was a public memorial for the tech worker who was murdered. we got that worked. oliver: the photo of the victim is not large it is small relative to the amount of space and the text is very straightforward. it used the standard bloomberg font. itoes not draw away. it is a colorful.
it is just very to the point. >> you don't want to distract from the point. you want people to have a sense of what the story is about right away and on the inside, we have a good shoot of the town itself. for the cover, i think you want to see the victim first. oliver: up next, the refugee modernizing the way money is sent back to home countries. as venezuela descends into chaos, more and more citizens are packing their bags for the united states. this is bloomberg businessweek. ♪
specifically miami. we talked to reporter margaret newkirk. >> you have a crisis that is getting worse and worse in venezuela. the economic level, i think 5100 boulevards is one dollar. people with good salaries are now earning $50 per month. food, medicine, everything is in short supply. they were coming with very little money. that is different from earlier generations of venezuelans that first started coming here after chavez took power. oliver: for a long time, venezuela was a place where people came to. after the rule of chavez, people -- it is a different picture. do they think there is hope or there a life to create here? >> they miss venezuela, but most the people we talked to do not want to return. they are making a life here. they are applying for political asylum. most of them probably will not get it.
that would mean deportations possibly in two years or three years. oliver and looking at numbers : from your story you'd there is estimated 3 million venezuelans by 2013. these are numbers that keep adding up. how is this shaping the culture? i thought it was interesting that it has shaped miami. where you have a venezuelan demographic that is booming. >> you see the ltl restaurants that sell venezuelan sandwiches over the place and the skyline has new venezuelan desires and -- venezuelan designs on the high-rises. then you also have lots of venezuelans looking for help. something kind of knew. oliver: is the entire families coming over? is a young folks working to send money back to their country? is the wave of immigration out
of venezuela something that will continue? >> it is both. it is both a young, single people and families. i did not talk to anyone who was sending money back other than a guy who was trying to help his moeret medicine for cancer. a couple of numbers are pretty interesting. you had 14,000 political asylum requests in the fiscal year that ended last year, that ended in october. so far this fiscal year, 14,000 already. that is six months. it is on a pace to double. oliver: speaking of refugees, in the markets and finance section, refugee, he is working hard to make it easier to send money back home. this month, his online money transfer program is connecting to android pay. i talked with reporter edward robertson. >> kenya was the first country where you saw really widespread
dissemination of mobile money . that is 10 years old and it is long enough to look at the impact. a study m.i.t. professors did last year showed it had listed about 140,000 households out of poverty. it has done so because it provided them with a way to pay their bills, save money, collect money, not get robbed, which is a factor in many of these rural communities. kenya is the place where you can really srto see economic impacts from mobile money. now remittances are affecting that, and increasingly as flows from families in the u k, the united states, japan start to go to africa, india, southeast asia, you will probably see more economic influence as that kind of ratchets up the volume of
hard currency that goes toho markets. oliver: prior to this, was it cash and envelopes? what was the method for remitting money back to the home country? >> it was anything and everything. it was going to remittance outfits that set up shop on main street and newsstands, it is going to western union, which is the number one money transfer player worldwide both to developing countries and the developed world. it is using ancient networks. they have been going for centuries and transfer money through systems based on trust, like community trust. this has gone on since the beginning of civilization, people have moved money around. now with the advent of the smartphone, that is why you are starting to see this big change. it is happening in
threm of the electronic, i imagine there are also legal hurdles that have to be crossed. what does this open up in terms of who is sending money, what the money is for, and is that potentially going to throw a wrench into applications like world remit? >> there are a lot of rules and regulations to come in to play since 9/11 and trying to counter terrorist finance networks. there is also a lot of rules of -- rules that have come into play to fight money-laundering and other illicit activities. those systems pose a challenge for those digital remittance outfits because they have to ensure they comply with them. increasingly, they have turned to software that basically surveilled all of the transactions that run across the platforms and tries to fly -- tries to flag anomalous or abnormal behiothat may indicate that there is something illicit going on.
these platforms are really depending on other stwe providers to help them flag suspicious activity. that also poses internal challenge for regulators because they have to make sure they are monitoring all of the extra volume that is coming tough these online players in addition to the traditional banking. oliver: in the global economic session, cyprus has been known as a hub f rsian finance. now they are finding new and sophisticated ways to caufge what is happening. >> even the u.s. get you residency, a lot of european countries do it, too. all the small islands in the caribbean do it. cyprus has perfected in the last two years because cyprus relies
on foreign investments. everybody i met over there told me that. officials, businessmen, bankers. when foreign investment dried up after their crisis, they needed to find new ways to attract that. they thought, ok, we can speed up how we get passport for foreigners. it is really fast, it can be as fast as three months. a russian guy and met while i was there, over dinner and drinks, he got it in five months. he bought two villas, and by december, his passport was in the mail. he got it. it is faster than any other place than you can get it and it
is easy. you don't even have to live in the houses. you can rent them out immediately. it is an investment. oliver: why do russians in particular want this? >> they have multiple reasons. russians have been trying to get their money out of russia for a long time because it is a scary, unstable country. politically, you're in one day and out the next day. one morning you wake up with cops at the door with all of your assets seized and you are in jail. you want to keep some of that out for safety. a passport helps you with the safety of little bit, especially if you get it for your family, it helps to get passports for all your family very easily. if you keep some of your investments in shell companies in countries like cyprus then the russians cannot see them easily. oliver: russians have been doing
this through different countries but because cyprus had a need as well, it is supplied meeting demand. cyprus gains from this and that in order to get this passport, russians have to invest in something. what exactly are they investing in? >> all kinds of things. real estate is a top choice. you can just buy houses or commercial real estate like a hotel in trouble, or even government bonds. government bond prices have been doing well in the last couple of years because people have been buying them. just last year they got 4 billion euros of investment. for such a small country, that is one quarter of their economic output. oliver: coming next, james comey out of the fbi. black-marketn of heroin. we talk about how it is spreading across the united states. this is bloomberg businessweek. ♪
♪ oliver: welcome back to bloomberg businessweek. you can catch us on the radio on sirius xm and in new york, boston, washington, d.c. and in the bay area. and in london and in asia. in the politics and policy section, this week, president donald trump fired fbi director james comey. the move raises more questions than it provides answers. why was he like go and ultimately, what does it mean for the white house ties with russia? we talked with editor matt phillips. >> the story the white house is telling is that the president received two letters from the department of justice. one written by the deputy
attorney general rod rosenstein, who was just confirmed two weeks ago, laying out the case against jim comey. arguing that he had lost the credibility and faith of career staffers iidthe fbi. as evidence, they pointed almost exclusively to his handling of the hillary clinton probe. specifically they were angry about the press conference he gave his last july in which he came out and criticize clinton but said no prosecution was warranted. these were a fts that were well known for months and months. on the campaign trail, then candidate trump praised comey by and large for reopening the investigation just 10 days before the election. trump then took those letters, acted on them, sent a messenger
to the fbi, his longtime bodyguard, to deliver a letter to director comey, who was in fact in los angeles giving a speech to fbi staff out there. he, as it turns out, found out about his own firing from the news. oliver: what can we read between the lines in terms of why they decided to revisit the situation of james comey and the investigation? >> timing is the question everyone has. the timing is very bizarre. these are all facts that the -- that have been known for months and months. the president has actually on a number of occasions praised director comey, even since he is taken office. so even republicans are scratching their heads on the timing of this. the elephant in the room is really the russia question, and that the fbi was conducting its own investigation into trump's
campaign. and what, if any, collusion or crdination existed between his campaign and the russian government. so now the president will be in charge of nominating and fbi director, who will be leading an investigation into his own campaign. it is very strange. there is no real historical precedents for this. oliver: also on the politics and policy section, 2017 shaping up to be a record-breaking year for the heroin business. on top of that, the product is more dangerous than ever. iave been reporting on the heroin epidemic off and on, and one thing i was noticing is when you talk to police officer s, first responders, people who are dealing with dealers and addicts on the ground, the market dynamics of heroin are shaping up to make 2017 probably the worst year ever in terms of overdose and profit motive for dealers. that was what i was really after with the story.
what is the supply and dynamics -- what is the supply and demand dynamics as a traitor like? oliver: where did that taken you ? regionally, we know there are hotspots around the country. what area did you look at? >> i was interested in cincinnati in particular. the reason cincinnati piqued my interest is because they have seen an influx of some of the most dangerous synthetics. they are really potent and toxic, and the backside of that is it kills customers. if you are a heroin dealer and product,t into your you're risking causing overdoses which doesn't make a lot of sense if you're trying to make money off these people. but the reason they do it is because it increases the margin so dramatically because it is cut so many times before you sell it because it is so potent. it is also a marketing device. if you have it in the drug, everybody knows it is the most
potent thing out there and people are chasing bigger and fentanyl, itthen is a really strong way to say, i have the strongest heroin. >> as you point out in the story, one is an elephant tranquilizer. >> it is not approved for human consumption. it is approved for use by veterinarians to tranquilize large animals. it is actually called rhino on the street, i found out while reporting on this, which harkens back to the fact that it is a tranquilizer and not meant for people. oliver: this has been a focal point in the past year or so on the campai til. president trump along the campaign talked about drugs coming from mexico. he also talked about the opioid epidemic and what he would do to stop it. how well are those pris holding up in early signs from the administration of what they're going to be doing to combat it? >> i had one person who researches this describe to me the situation the federal level as chaos.
we don't know what it is going to look at yet. on one hand we have president trump clearly speak out about the opioid crisis. he obviously is aware it is happening, he obviously has made a lot of promises about helping to deal with it. at the same time, we have the republican health care bill that would reduce medicaid substantially and du treatment. we've also seen the draft budget from the white house suggest they might be cutting one of the major offices that deals wh the opioid crisis, a 95% funding cut. if that comes to be, that is a dramatic move. at the same time, they could be reshuffling that money elsewhere. we don't know all the details. at this time is not totally clear what the administration's response will be. the eu watchdog investigating apple and google. and why cruise line operators believe their industry is the best position to profit from
oliver: welcome back to "bloomberg businessweek." .'m oliver renick big corporations targ europe, there is one e.u. official that wants to make sure they play by the rules. then our vacation guide that can save your life. all that ahead on "bloomberg businessweek." ♪ oliver: i am back with megan murphy to talk about some must reads in this addio -- edition.
let's talk about politics. comes out of the french election what we saw with emmanuel macron taking a commanding win over le pen, but it is talking about the strong man rulers that will roll out in trumpsefer to as mini like an indonesia and turkey and the netherlands. or could we be at the end a strong man politics? if we are at the apex of this trend. it is a fascinating look. you don't know where strongmen attempts are in place to bring back authoritarian forms of government. oliver: that is a big question after france if that is a turning point or a blip.
let's talk about strong women. this is about cracking down the corporations. the danish politician has carved out a reputation for herself as taking on companies, whether it is google, demanding 14 billion dollars in back taxes from apple. and is looked at another -- and is look at other big wigs. getting a glimpse of someone who keeps a big outstretched finger, and i will not refer to what finger, that you will not please people all the time. she is making waves, but taking prisoners. oliver: it is a great look at the person. we had those details from the editor. >> she is the danish politician that is thcoissioner for the european union. she has come to prominence by
letting a decision against apple for a stake of apple -- against apple for a stake for more tha -- they knew that she was pursuing the case vigorously, but the amount definitely got attention. it is the largest such decision ever levied against the company. oliver: when you are an individual able to lobby $14 billion on apple, that is a big feat of power. how does the commission work? >> i think it is 900 people. she has a large research staff that kind of goes in, makes these decisions. rules.. loves its there are differences in the way they go about it, where tax incentives are concerned.
by a large, the spirit of the la are similar to hear. you do not want to create monopoly capital and have an imbalanced market. she has the full force behind her and making those determinations. oliver: there is a line in the store that encompasses why what she is doing so unique. multinationals are not used to being stymied overseas. it is simply put because you take apple for example, we always talk about these companies that do inversions, or companies that do not put their cash overseas. they have a big -- like in ireland. this is a push in the opposite direction. she is looking at google right now facing several different inquiries. this is not something that american companies -- they do not one it. are they surprised by what is happening?
jeremy: i think so. bloomberg news did a really good look at how the apple case went down and the different -- and the extent to which it was a surprise to the company. from their perspective, the idea -- what the map points out is that the jobs that the companies bring in our ordinarily very welcome. that is the assumptionn. their job creators want them there. it would be that i'm making sure it -- if are fair, someone has a great gadget that they want to introduce, they can compete with google or apple. there is a disagreement between the companies and the theetition commission over interpretation of those rules. week's up next, business
♪ oliver: welcome back to "bloomberg businessweek." i'm oliver renick. cracked ceo robert kraft opened up about his relationship with the president. known for ownership of the patriots, one of the most successful franchises in many sports over the past two decades. we sat down with him and talked about what it takes to build a successfulfranchise.
what it means to maintain that level of success. he is known as being a very personal owner. bradyelichick and tom have both been there 17 years. we talked about his personal relationship with donald trump. he sees a very different side to the president than a lot of people say. oliver: that's talk about sports -- let's talk about sports. he talks about his first foray into sports, which is in tennis. it is interesting he drew on that experience. >> he is a guy who is learned lessons. his first franchise was the boston lobsters. itexplained it to me that was lobsters for new england, but "lob." when he first bought the lobsters, they were good, but they had a coach. -- they did not have what is
but they did not have was a star. he realize going forward he needed a star. he realize that most of the money you could make and how to control the franchise was to own the things that make a lot of revee her than ticket sales -- parking, concessions. he brought that with him when he built gillette stadium. the only privately funded sports stadium, finished it after 9/11. went -- took out a personal loan to fund the construction of the $300 million stadium. was goingat the key to be owning the parking, concessions, and everything that goes around a successful business. what is a big part that has made -- oliver: let's talk about politics. when i think about a guy who is driven by winning and has that attitude where people can hate us, but we are still winning. there i say, there seems to be a bridge of the persona of his
relationship with donald trump. life,n he talks about his he put his hand to hishard and refers to her as his sweetheart. she passed away. he said in the interview that donald called him every week for a year. so downaid, if he was after nejra passed away, -- myra passed away, he was having the darkest of dark thoughts. he said there were four or five people around him that got him going. one of those was the president. what i find fascinating about that is this is a side of the president that a lot of people don't see. but it is actually something that you hear from some of his friends. that he is an incredibly loyal friend and he values that. he also says i know him closely enough to not believe everything
he says. and he does not believe everything he says. the day we did this and if you, he had gotten a call from the president on his way, asking for advice. they have a very close relationship and have a very different relationship that people see of donald trump. we see aortant that different side of donald trump. oliver: do you think those characteristics will translate well into the presidency? >> i think he is finding his way learning the hard way, maybe like robert kraft with the lobsters. he will have to change. he will have to pivot more quickly and get along in washington. that is a tough town and you better be willing to compromise. he will not get anything done. he will not escape the total bipartisan -- partisan blockade if he does not go along to get along. oliver: turmoil at rothenberg ventures shows why silicon
valley doesn't support whistleblowers. was in rothenberg, who his 30's, started a venture capital fund after getting out of stanford. he is a contemporary within stanford around the same time as mark zuckerberg, and the guy from insta graham. -- instagram. he created a venture capital fund for millennial scum of but got no of her throwing these big, i'll elaborate events around san francisco and elsewhere. he was running out luxury boxes at sporting events. he rented out at&t park in san francisco where the baseball team plays where he hosts this big event. he did this other one that i thought was funny that was puppy parties where they would bring out puppies. and people could come and pet them. all of this over-the-top stuff going on around. oliver: that is when the
chickens come home to roost in the form of francisco. did he become the centerpiece ts investigation story that you write? the company at the beginning of 2016 to work on part of the company's website, and to run its a.p., which he was having concerns with the money was coming from, and how it was being managed. rothenberg set up these other entities, which he controlled more. and money from all of these things were being commingled in a way that investors were not aware of. he went to the securities and exchange commission and voiced his concerns, and began sharing information and documents with tm, while also working at the company. he became a whistleblower. oliver: he began working on the website. give us the timeframe. how quickly was he able to find this stuff out? was it pretty clear or obvious
in the sense that it did not take years at the company? it did not take a long time for him to sniff this out? >> he found it pretty quickly. he worked there for six months. he went to the securities and exchange commission and had meetings with them and then learned rothenberg was deleting email accounts. the sec sent a note to rothenberg, don't delete anything, hold onto your records in case you want to look at them. and so then afte that, about a week later, francisco riordan was terminated. he was fired. there is some dispute there. rothenberg said he had already given notice before this, and that this is celebrating his exit. he says that is not tru he is is rare whistleblower that is nonpublic with what he has
done in silicon -- that has -- he is a rare whistleblower that has goneublic in silicon valley. oliver: a lot of people do not come out and talk about it. why is his story taken hold within the country those tackling -- taken hold in the country? >> this is a soap opera. asr the past year, there was big rise were they were holding these big events getting a lot of publicity. then there was this dramatic fall. there were a lot of stories about the mismanagement of funds. it was not clear. the sec began to investigate. people were following this saga. whothey wanted to know was were the people behind misleading to these investigations and stories being done? francisco riordan was one of the
people in simental and all of that. oliver: what happens? what is the future of a silicon valley wstblower? >> it is uncharted territory. it is unclear what will happen. he has had trouble looking for work. he has gone on some interviews. rothenbergenters -- ventures -- he has made the decision to go public as a whistleblower. there sometimes can be a stigma associated with that. and how companies will see that is him being an ethical person, or making them concerned he will turn around and do the same thing against them. just makes his career prospects of it more complicated than your average software engineering and francisco. oliver: to be fair, what has rothenberg set against the client? rothenberg has said they are
cooperating with the sec and said they will be able to reach a conclusion with it. he also did a facebook liv video in which he blamed a lot of the problems on cessation must media coverage -- sensationalist media coverage. i try to interview him and he declined. oliver:, the company that is providing night visions to satellites, and why cruising to cuba might be a better option to flying there. and a vacation guide for some of us suffering from insomnia and stress. this is "bloomberg businessweek." ♪
in the technology section, new generation of satellites with night vision i can see down to the millimeter. me is theteresting to baseline of this thing called synthetic radar. a started has just raised $12 million for the development. they can transform what is called sar from the realm of military and spy satellites to day-to-day customers -- companies. oliver: this is synthetic at picture radar. -- aperature radar. what is this? >> the satellites that have in the province of the pentagon or governments around the world.
they are about the size of a school bus and weigh 2500 pounds. they veiantntnas on them. the rean because they have to being radar 300 miles down to the surface of the earth from space. the idea is that the radar bounces off the earth itself and will travel back to the sensors on the satellite, which will interpret the data so they can build. as far as we can tell, the most --urate or beautiful images they are the most accurate or beautiful images known to man. oliver: it is pretty clear, the accuracy is such that you can see tread marks from a car or truck that hasiv over sand hors d'oeuvres in an area. that is pretty incredible -- has in theover sand or dirt area. that is pretty incredible. >> the bigdvtage that they have over conventional thatpowered telescopes is
in see through clouds and work at night, which a lot of satellites cannot. oliver: cuba is opening itself to tourism, but the island' infrastructure leaves travelers -- >> they had a big bump in tourism last year, which is the first one that americans were allowed. stf those people are flying, but the crews industry -- cruise well overs seeing 100,000 passengers last and growing vision more dramatically. cruisesthe growth in versus the growth and airlines. it is in favor of the cruise ships at this point, is it not? >> overall, more people are flying, but what happened if there were a limited number of flights landing slots allowed in
all the airlines jumped in and make really overestimated demand and had to cut back on some of their flights and flights smaller planes as well. the cruise lines are taking it slower. there are big increases here. they do have advantages that one of cuba's problems is it does not have a tourism infrastructure. quite the level of hotels and restaurants. and so, the ships have an advantage where you can come back to the ship, sleep and eat. you did a lot of research into the different lines going. are they competing for a time and passageway there, or will this be a big market for all of them? nobody of the u.s. saleers will fail -- with into there, but now there is a
huge demand. withval was the first one thisewruise line called fathom. it did not quite takeoff is carnival would have hoped. they will start service with a traditional carnival ship. all of e cruise lines are taking their own approaches. one of them are making one-stop as part of a two-week european crews -- cruise. it is one of the shortest trips. there will be an overnight to stay and have been on the ship. be april festive atmosphere for folks. oliver: if cuba is in your
destination of choices, don't worry. we took this approach saying we have things during the year we want to work on, whether it is reducing our stress or feeling better, or in the good samaritan, or repairing that relationship that is not going as well as you would like it to. we picked 12 locations in total, two each we are trying to fix or you can look through this and say i want to work on this, i ll go here. oliver: lot of times, vacation is i have to get out of the office, i have to get away, and then you just choose somewhere where you can get somebody to go with you. or it is a default beach. but this is specific to what you want. how did you dig up all of these ideas? >> there is a ton of hotels that -- a lot of places trying to cater to very specific niche needs.
in the dominican republic, there is a place called the extreme hotel. basically, you talk to them before you get there about your weight and fitness goals. by the time you land, there are people to set in moti aeek of exercise and healthy eating to help you achieve those goals. you do have to think about these vacations before. you cannot just pick up and go that weekend. want to get there, hopefully they are more productive. oliver: you take a pretty holistic approach where you indicate some activities you c do while you are there. maybe it is reading a book or an activity. >> we meet six extracurricular recommendations, day trips you can take. india, about arizona, indonesia,bein and portugal are great places to learn how to sleep. i know you when i think the berlin is a place to learn how to sit, but the hotel there has a person on staff to help you
♪ >> coming up on "bloomberg best," the stories that shaped the weekend business around the world. toitics from paris washington with new faces entering the spotlight and familiar figures leaving the stage. >> he has to govern me to the right. >> key to philly has pushed -- he definitely has pushed the softer line. >> different times for different reasons, people asked for an fbi director and they will get one. >> traders look ahead to gauge what is on the horizon. >> i am wd out european banks. >>